personally we prefer the idea of a wealth redistribition tax. The tax man takes everything above 3500k and redistributes equally it to those poor teams with balances less than 1000K

I'd prefer a tax (50%?) on the difference between what you have and 3500k rather than 100% which Eduard's suggestions mostly amounts to.

I would definitely vote against distributing to the poorer teams.

I don't like the proposed change - it's supposed to encourage you from not going over, not to cap the amount you have.

Here's some background on the taxing rules setup...

Originally this was setup (maybe like season 3 or so of U1?; I don't know but is was early on) because I noticed people were hoarding cash.  I felt like that was not a good thing so I put in the rule we have.  I (mostly) remember to apply the rule when people surpass the threshold.  I am guilty of sometimes forgetting.  I would like to automate it.  

I'm open to options on this.  Thanks for the ideas so far.  First a TMVL Primer...

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In TMVL we do it this way:

a) Each team gets 500 RPs at end of season (RPs/Recruiting Points are the k/cash equivalent for U1/U2).

b) There are some (though not large) RP bonuses at end of season for Cup/league finishes

c) Teams do sign "walk on" players just before end of season which can reduce RP amounts

d) When I run end of season after all of the above if anyone is above 2500 RPs their RPs are reset to 2500.  No XX% tax.  Just a raw number to keep teams from hoarding Recruiting Points.  

Its not perfect.  It can be a little unpredictable and you might get over 2500 with all your winnings.  But I'm not going to feel bad if you do.  So in general I like the approach and it is automated 100%.  😎

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For U1 and U2 I'd really like to get to something similar...

a) I'd like to automate it (so I don't forget/have to think; see above).

b) I'd like to run it at the end of the season as part of the end season/aging code after teams earn any competition/player bonuses

c) I'd like to keep it to a simple query: If bank is greater than XXXX set bank to 3500

d) I will not add it for this season (current rules would apply).  But I'd like to add it for the end of seasons 49 (U1) and 39 (U2)

As always please feel free to talk me down off the ledge.  However I see this as something that should be rare and keep teams from hoarding too much.

I'd really like to take the approach above, but for #c I need to know what XXXX is.

3500k?

3750k?

4000k?

Something else?

I'd prefer to keep a 3500k threshold heading into a new season.  But you can argue me out of that number if you'd like.  

I would be okay with end of season, post-bonuses, any team over 3500k gets reduced to 3500k. If a team didn't spend more in auctions or trades, that's on them. It does avoid the scenario Eduard presents where a team might avoid commenting or participating in the prediction league to avoid getting extra cash in the last two sessions.  That seems contrary to the goal of more manager participation.

Also, I'm in favor of Al automating this it's easier on Al in the future off-seasons. Good idea, Al.  Get Al on that when you have the chance.

For U1 and U2 I'd really like to get to something similar...

a) I'd like to automate it (so I don't forget/have to think; see above).

b) I'd like to run it at the end of the season as part of the end season/aging code after teams earn any competition/player bonuses

c) I'd like to keep it to a simple query: If bank is greater than XXXX set bank to 3500

Ok, a and c are quite trivially achieved ...

case bank of.

3500 <= bank < 4500.

bank_post_tax_1 = 3500

bank_post_tax_2 = bank * .9

4500 <= bank < 5500.

bank_post_tax_1 = 4500 * .9

bank_post_tax_2 = bank * .8

5500 <= bank.

bank_post_tax_1 = 5500 * .8

bank_post_tax_2 = bank * .7

bank := max( bank_post_tax_1, bank_post_tax_2 )

So the coding is anything but complex for my suggestion.

The current ruleset would just set

bank_post_tax_1 := 0

in any case.

This would result in eliminating the extra payments for e.g. 3500 vs 3499 - and avoiding the (bad) micromanagement needs, like no participation.

b) is a rather bad idea.

The bank account after all bonuses cannot be reliably calculated till round 8. And after that there's simply (next to) nothing you can do anymore to gauge it.

WEL e.g. can currently not seriously estimate our bonus money this season - and thus the resulting tax base.

Ofc there are ways of "parking" money for tax evasion, but they are rather boring and tedious - and I actually want to play a football, not a banking sim.

Summing up: I like the current system, I just saw a minor flaw in it - which is easily corrected.

Any major changes should be introduced very carefully and with time to adapt - otherwise some people (me included) might feel robbed, when their account shows up with 1000k less.

To honest cash has never been an issue for me in this game so I dont pay that much attention and usually fall foul of the taxman.

I'd be in favor of the 3500 max but before bonus paid for competition or player bonus's.

My thinking is you should be punished for hoarding or financial mismanagment but not punished on performance

I am guilty of what Eduard brings up. I wind up hoarding cash by accident -- mostly due to being busy and not considering that cash is building up -- so I sometimes have a scramble to buy a player just to buy one and/or stop commenting to stop earning cash. Mostly I take this to be that a weakness in my game that I am not effectively using my cash to build my best team. In general, I agree with a cap (and I think I like the idesa of just slashing to 3500 -- or whetever the number is -- at the end of the season). I am not a big innovator, but there coiuld also be cool stuff like "other" things to spend cash on -- maybe stadium improvements, which maybe slightly boost home advantage (but that may be hard to implement and maintain?) 

I am guilty of what Eduard brings up. I wind up hoarding cash by accident -- mostly due to being busy and not considering that cash is building up -- so I sometimes have a scramble to buy a player just to buy one and/or stop commenting to stop earning cash. Mostly I take this to be that a weakness in my game that I am not effectively using my cash to build my best team. In general, I agree with a cap (and I think I like the idesa of just slashing to 3500 -- or whetever the number is -- at the end of the season). I am not a big innovator, but there coiuld also be cool stuff like "other" things to spend cash on -- maybe stadium improvements, which maybe slightly boost home advantage (but that may be hard to implement and maintain?) 

Firstly I wasn´t being entirely serious in regards to the redistribution of wealth. It would not for certain help the weakest teams and make them more competitive.

Secondly I agree with the sentiment expressed by a few other managers in that it seems fairer to apply the tax before end of season bonuses are added as it would kind of penalise success.

Lastly 3500K seems like a reasonable cap. Anything higher to a degree kind of defeats the purpose in discouraging people hoarding cash.

I wonder how big of an issue this really is. 

How many times does the Tax Man come per season on average?

How often do teams get within striking distance of the tax bracket? (3000-3499k)

If we're only talking about like 1-3 times per season AND we don't have a ton of teams that come close to the threshold on a regular basis, then I'd be very in favor of Al's simply end of season solution. There's no need to engineer something complicated - KISS principle.

If, however, it's more like 5+ times per season that the tax man comes, and there's like 5 teams each session that are close to the threshold, then I could definitely see a need to make a more complicated system.

Definitely agree that taxnig, in whatever form, should take place before end season bonuses are applied.  It leaves managers more in control of their destiny, which is a good thing.

I don't have strong feelings about the cash limit, 3500 seems reasonable.

I would prefer some sort of variable tax rate, so balances above 3500 are taxed at 50% (or whatever), which allows managers to do some stockpiling, a legitimate tactic in my view, but the tax rate needs to be high enough to make stockpiling unattractive in nearly all situations.  However, keeping it simple has its attractions, so just reducing balances to 3500 is not unreasonable.

I love C-Ball's post. "Oh, I always have this problem of soooooooo much cash! Sometimes I have to buy players just to spend money, I need to build luxury boxes so I can earn more cash!" How many times can he say "stockpile"  with a straight face? He even posted twice to rub it in!!!!!