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Close Season Auction
Posted by Kevin Martin on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 3:44 AM

Al has requested that we start some banter about the Close Season Auction mentioned previously by a few managers.  The idea is that players and perhaps some Backroom Boys would be available for purchase after the season officially ends (i.e. all matches played).

What needs to be figured out is apparently:

1) Whether we want to do this.  If voting one or the other here, please explain how this concept is a good or bad idea for the league at this time.

2) How big of an auction should this be?  30 players was the first number through out, which is one for every team.  Is that too much for this first season as most teams have at least 1-2 good players at every position right now?

If you have some thoughts, drop them in pretty quickly as there will only be another 3 sessions after this one... though that might take some time to get through them depending on how complicated the Commish's life get in the next few weeks.

Readers Comments

Hi all,

I think the close season auction is a must!

It should not be limited to age II upwards players. I think some APP level 5-7 should be available as future star's as well as level I's.

It is also the chance to bring in any special players ie. Midfield Link Man etc.

Maybe in the first season the size of the auction should be limited to 15 so the game does not become overkill.

Regards.

Trevor Taylor on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 7:13 AM
 

Hi

I agree with Trevor on some of the subjects, 30 players is too many for a league with 30 teams in it, one each means bids will be low as it seems that there is some auction apathy anyway right now.

Currently i have reservations about special character players like linkmen as these can sometimes prove to be too powerful for to long, a linkman for example adds all levels to DF and MF in home games as an age 1 level 9 will be around for 4 seasons and should command a very high price. But there are others like Winger(he stops the opposition playing OST if he plays in the team), Full Back adds his age to the sweeper levels for stopping chances, although all these players have double coaching costs so it becomes a more difficult choice as to who to coach each session.

I agree we should possibly have some age apps and level 1 in the auction but maybe only 2 or 3 out of say 15 players in total, however again we will all have between 4-6 age I players in our team next year from the schoolboy introduction this year and therefore why would we need anymore?

Again we all have 4-6 schoolboys becoming Age App and its balance to know what level to get them to, in reality a schoolboy could become a Level 5, next year with full 2matches a session he becomes a level 10 app then onto a 15 age 1, 13 age 2 and so on and with coaching of that player age 2 13 he would be a 16, Al has the idea that 16 is the player level limit otherwise players do really become to powerful.

I have to agree with him also about the player limit of 30 players, some clubs will have no room left for auction players although it would always be wise to leave room, but by placing too many players in the close season auction you would in my opinion have unsold players and some going too cheaply. should this be increased to 32?

If we had a 7app in the auction he becomes a 12 I then a 17 I, 15 II -18 II with coaching in his third season, no bad thing in the long run just so long as there are not too many of them please.

Its a balance in the long run between Youth and Experience and despite my ramblings i can see that some higher level apps would give the game some variety, currently we all have the same players and ability to bring on apps/schoolboys etc in the same way.

In essence i am in favour of close season auctions but for us it should be less than 30 players maybe 15-20, with a breakdown of 5 players age app-I, 5 players age 2, 4 players age 3, 3 players age IV and three backroom boys possibly?

Maybe during the close season our teams could all have a tour of duty and play three extra matches in order to introduce the new schoolboys and give the apps some extra matches before the start of the season kicks off?

Regards Simon

 

 

Simon Compton on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 9:01 AM
 

 I'm in favor of the close season auction. Here are my thoughts on the subject:

  • Limit the auction to no more than 20 players.
  • Ages should be Age I - Age IV with SLs in line with what is available in regular auctions
  • No Youth Players - teams shouldn't get a free pass on building youth tactics. Those teams that are putting in the work to build strong youth players have to sacrifice in order to do it. Other teams who have ignored Youth shouldn't then be rewarded by getting good APPs for real cheap without having to suffer through the tough times of playing an SL 4 player in a lot of matches.
  • No "special" players - I don't feel that there has been any real discussion on what these special players would be and what impact they would have on the league. Until that has been settled, I don't think it is appropriate to put them in the mix.
  • There should be a number of backroom boys. At least 1 of every type.

Do players aquired in the Close Season Auction suffer aging?

Rob Peterson on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 1:02 PM
 

In response to Rob's question

Close season auction is in effect happening after all ageing has taken place so therefore the age and players that you are bidding on will be current for the new season 2 and then they will age like all players at the end of season 2.

Simon

Simon Compton on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 2:06 PM
 

Sorry Rob

I forgot to comment on the coaches, i disagree with 1 coach of each type being available we all have age IV players becoming age V and therefore have some tough decisions on which player becomes what type of coach. Thankfully as i understand it these type of conversions will see our coaches lasting 2 seasons whereas in general auction backroom boys seem to last a year only except yours of course Rob!

How many backroom boys maybe only 2 or 3 for me introduced via the auction.

You make a valid point about the Youth players Rob however in the real world whilst teams develope there Youth policy they still seek out players from other clubs, now if more people were up for wheeling and dealing on there own youth players that would be fine, but who really is going to sell their level 7 or 8 app?

Many leagues offer 2-3 players of this quality and it has not been to the detrement of the league.

More views i feel are required on this subject.

Simon

Simon Compton on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 2:18 PM
 

I have reservations about the Closed Season Auction because Most squads already have 25/26 + players. With the necessary seasonal intake of youth to cover Youth Cup competition, is there a need to flood the market with more players in the off season?

I think we need to ask several questions first(some of these already posed above)

How many players/lots    In my opinion the numbers being mentioned are too high I would say 12- 15 is enough

What parameters (ages/SL/multi-positions/BRB)I dont think we need Apprentices or Schoolboys in this auction. Not sure the Multi-position issue has been discussed yet & therefore not in favour of introducing them into this auction. I dont think Back-Room boys need to be included as most teams will have age 1V players to convert.

Do players aquired in the Close Season Auction suffer aging?(Rob Peterson)  I would hope they didnt age dont see the point of auctioning an age 3 level 8 player that will be a 4/4 after aging for example.

 

Dave Dowson on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 4:06 PM
 

First off, this auction should be POST-aging.  As in what you are buying is what you will start the next season with so there is no confusion.

I think the lower limit on auction numbers sounds like a good idea.  15 sounds like a decent cap to keep things from ever getting too cheap.  Glad to see a number of managers in agreement on this one.  At least we're starting to see consensus in one area!

I'm mixed about the youth players.  I'm not opposed to there being Apprentices if they are on par with those that can be developed.  Such a one SL 5 and two SL 4 apprentices for example.  The price you'd have to pay to get them would offset the cost of playing a Schoolboy for 6 or 9 matches the prior season.  Don't like the idea of being able to buy an SL 7 App right off the bat though.  I agree with Rob here.  No downside to the player and makes it too easy to ignore youth development and just buy your way out of trouble.

If we are going to bring in players who might peak at higher SL than those who can be discovered and trained internally to a team, this is the auction we should do it at.  I propose that we do that from the start though such as including two or three SL 3 Schoolboys for example.  Teams would still have to fully develop the player, and only reap the benefits of a superstar after suffering the costs of training them up in the first place.

No special players yet.  We have yet to get a decent league-wide discussion on who they are and what they do and how they'll impact play vs. resource use etc.

Three to four Backroom Boys would be fine, if they are all going to be Age II.  You get a full season out of them that way, while the teams converting their own would reap the rewards of getting two seasons of value from the deal.

Kevin Martin on Friday, Apr. 3rd, 2009 at 5:29 PM
 

I think I am a broadly in agreement with Kevin, although have similar concerns to Dave as to whether we actually need this auction, maybe we should look to introduce this after season 2 when much of our initial stock of players will have been used.  Anyway here are my comments

Total lots between 10 and 15 - too many will make the Lots cheap.  If we go for 15 that is a total of 57 Lots in total for the whole season, almost 2 each.

Youth Players - I f we are to offer them then I like Kevin's idea to have SL 3 schoolboys.  If we were to offer APPs they could be lower level (4-6) but have multi pos ability. We do not want to create superstars that unbalance the league.

Backroom Boys - I think 3-4 lots can be backroom boys.  Again I like Kevin's idea that they are one season coaches by being Age II. One of each type perhaps?

Special Players - I think these need to be thought about a bit more before we introduce them.  We have to be very careful that they do not upset the balance of the league.  I think that perhaps this something for season 3 or 4, once the league has settled down. I was never a fan of link  men though.  

My one idea is players with special characteristics.  I always liked the variety that Alan Parr put into his game with players that aged slightly differently, could be coached easier, or restricted  usually these were opposite to each other. 

As a quick thought along these lines you might get offered a player 1/5 who ages  1 less per season. Or an Age 1/10 who  ages +2SL more than his age.  Similarly the opposite Age 1/10 who can only be raised by 3 in his age 1 season , however he ages -2SL of nomal.  Perhaps a SL 2 APP who only needs 2 games to raise a level, but ages at +2 SL  throughout his career.  Players that have a higher fitness level say upto 4?, Players that do not lose fitness, but also cannot have it increased by CP.

  BUT these (I assume) would be difficult to code and add much complexity to running of the game and so therefore not very attractive.

So to conclude I would be happy with something like Kevin's proposal!

 

James Tucker on Saturday, Apr. 4th, 2009 at 11:45 PM
 

Hi guys,

I think I'm hearing some consensus (or perhaps that's just the voices in my head)? 

Here's what I think I'll do this season:

1) Have 15 players in the auction (1-APP, 2-I, 3-II, 4-III, 5-IV)

2) Have 4 BBs (one of each type, ALL age II)

3) Conduct this over 2 sessions...session A with the same deadline as Session 10 and session B in the "close season session".  All players/BBs in the auction will not be aged and you'll get them "AS-IS" for the start of season 2.

The point above allows for people to see "what happened" in Auction A to determine how to approach Auction B.

Again, lots of possibilities here, but I'll try this for this season.

Here's a question I'd like comment on:

What range of SLs per Age?

While the age distribution (see point 1 above) might not be to everyone's liking...I want to make sure we don't start providing "non-stop all-stars" in these auctions...and would prefer to see some good players available but not "players on steroids" in terms of SL.

Thanks!

Al

Allan Sellers on Saturday, Apr. 11th, 2009 at 12:12 AM
 

Skill Levels Random Chance

APP :   50% Level 7 : 30 % Level 8 : 15 % Level 9 : 5% Level 10

Age I : 50 % Level 8   30% Level 9  : 15% Level 10  5% Level 11

Age II : 50 % Level 9   30% Level 10  : 15% Level 11  5% Level 12

Age III : 50 % Level 10   30% Level 11  : 15% Level 12  5% Level 13

Age IV : 50 % Level 11   30% Level 12  : 15% Level 13  5% Level 14

Dave Dowson on Monday, Apr. 13th, 2009 at 12:34 AM
 

When deciding on age range, recall these numbers that are the MAX possible to start a season for a player who is solely found and developed by a team:

App: 5,  Age I: 10, Age 2: 13, Age 3: 13, Age IV: 12

To have an apprentice start the season TWICE as strong as any player who was painfully trained every session of an entire season is too much.  That would allow that player to start the following season at Age I, SL 15 and peak at SL 20 with 2 Fitness still to be added for an SL+Fit 22 player.  No other player can ever peak above 18 (16 SL+2 Fit), so that Apprentice level could in theory create a nearly unstoppable team if he came at SW or GK since you can add on 5 points through Hardness, etc. and have an effective SL 27 player stopping every shot that comes their way.

With those same starting ages in mind, I like Dave's % ranges overall for the other age groups, yet would like to see the App & IV pulled back closer to max self-development levels while the Age II goes up one so the top rank is on par with development instead of behind it.  The age II players wouldn't be worth spending much $ on because they will be guaranteed to be lower than any player I can train up myself.  I'd just buy or trade for a far cheaper age IV as a stop-gap while I brought up the player to fill in the spot for the next few seasons.

App: 10% level 3, 50% level 4, 30% level 5, 10% level 6 (there's a chance of a better player than anyone else can get, yet most will be on track with league averages as if you bought a player from a foreign team that they spent the time developing).

Age I: same. (Again, SL 11 is better than can be developed, however will be rare to find with only a 5% chance)

Age II: 50% level 10, 30% level 11, 15% level 12, 5% level 13

Age III: same

Age IV: 50% level 10, 30% level 11, 15% level 12, 5% level 13 (again, the top is 1 SL higher than any you can get on your own, with a greater chance of seeing the top end guys due to more age IV players in the auction than any others per Al's guidelines for this season's age distribution.  However, the age IV player will likely see little development as they will drop off in a hurry after this one useful season).

Kevin Martin on Thursday, Apr. 16th, 2009 at 4:57 PM
 
 
 
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