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Tiebreakers (Cup Games)
Posted by Allan Sellers on Wednesday, Feb. 18th, 2009 at 2:56 AM

Hi guys,

See the rules for the various flavo(u)rs of breaking ties in cup games...

Here's essentially how they break down:

1) Away goals scored, then Extra Time (30 mins), then PKs.

2) Extra Time (30 mins), then PKs.

3) PKs

Now before I wade into the code (and I don't need this in place for THIS weekend), I'd like to clarify a few points.

1) The rules I was copying from said that for the FA Cup...play 30 minutes THEN if tied the team with the most away goals wins 'there and then' and no PKs are needed (if its a Replay).  Is that 'really' the way its done?  I would think it would be away goals first THEN 30 minutes of extra time then PKs.  Can someone straighten me out on that? 

2) Has the concept of the Golden Goal died out?  I mean are we talking 30 minutes...a full 30 minutes...and not just first goal wins?  (That's my assumption...a full 30 minutes).

3) Per the rules, if we're in an extra time scenario, all players play with a fatigue reduction (-2).  I'm not sure why that's a big deal as effectively its an "all players lose 2 'levels'" sort of thing (unless I'm missing something).  But here's my real question...

If we're in extra time, I'm assuming I should go through all the main four functions:

a) Bookings
b) Injuries
c) PKs
d) Attacking Chances/Shots

Right? But since its 30 minutes all formula results get divided by 3?  So 1/3 as many PKs, shots, bookings, injuries, etc.  Thoughts?

Al

Readers Comments

In the FA CUP in England

Teams play the game if it is a draw after 90 minutes they replay a week or so later at the away teams venue.

If the scored are tied at 90 minutes they play 30 minutes Extra Time (full 30 minutes)(15 minutes each half).

If the scores are still tied after 120 minutes then a Penalty shoot out occurs.

There is no away goals count double rule in the FA CUP as it is a 1 Leg tie

The away Goals count double rule only comes into play if the Cup ties are decided by two legs(Home & Away) & only then after Extra time has been played in the second leg if the scores were tied after 2 ninety minute games.

If after 2 legs & Extra time the scores are tied & away goals are tied only then do Penalty kicks take place

The Golden Goal rule was adopted for the World Cup & other International tournaments but has since been dropped

I think

a) Bookings
b) Injuries
c) PKs
d) Attacking Chances/Shots

should be processed the same as ordinary time as fatigue becomes an issue the chances are increased so I wouldnd divide by 3 myself. Also the Penalty shoot out is least prefered way of deciding a match, much better to have a proper goal in extra time .

Dave Dowson on Wednesday, Feb. 18th, 2009 at 3:37 AM
 

  Me, personally, I've never liked the Away goals scored concept. So, if we're voting on this one, I would say let's use Away Goals as a last resort only. Folks in other United leagues can comment on how it's really handled in the other leagues, but I say the following sequence is used:

  1. Extra 30 minutes - no golden goal
  2. PKs until resolution is achieved

After reading Dave's input, I think that would work to everyone's delight for the FA Cup.

The -2 mod to fitness is in there to impact the player's SL. Since fitness is added to SL to get that player's impact to the area total. A -2 mod would reduce all of the area totals. However, I don't know how big of an impact it will have in reality never having played in a United game before. 

Rob Peterson on Wednesday, Feb. 18th, 2009 at 3:56 AM
 

 For the resolution of the extra-time, I would say, yes - divide all 4 sections (bookings, injuries, PKs, Attacking Chances / Shots) by 3.

Rob Peterson on Wednesday, Feb. 18th, 2009 at 3:57 AM
 

Just to add my thoughts. Don't you think extra time would affect older players more? How about a temporary reduction in fitness by the players age but excluding gk?

In terms of extra time. Yes to the 1/3rd options !

If penalty kicks are required start with highest skill level players after adjustment. Minimum of 5 PK's each. If still tied then sudden death after that until a winner emerges.

Trevor Taylor on Wednesday, Feb. 18th, 2009 at 10:21 AM
 

Hi guys,

Thanks for the feedback.  Here's what we'll do for FA Cup replays, FA Shield matches, and AP Cup knockout matches...

If they end in a draw...

1) 30 minutes of extra time; for all non GKs, their SL is reduced by their age (SBY/APP suffer 0 reduction); NO golden goal.

2) If still tied then PK Shootout (using higher SL players) until winner determined.

For extra time the following section's formulas will be divided by 3 and 're-run':
a) Bookings
b) Injuries
c) PKs
d) Attacking Chances/Shots

To be clear, NO AWAY GOALS will factor into the AP Cup Replays.

We can tune this further in Season 2 as needed.

Thanks again!
Al


Allan Sellers on Friday, Feb. 20th, 2009 at 1:34 AM
 

 Love it!

Rob Peterson on Friday, Feb. 20th, 2009 at 1:43 AM
 

Excellent Ive been calling for Extra Time in CUP  Matches for ages

Well done Al

Dave Dowson on Friday, Feb. 20th, 2009 at 2:52 AM
 

Sounds excellent to me, too.

Unfortunately I haven't enough time as yet (and am expecting to have even less time come Spring/Summer) to play United properly but have orders in for Forest just to make sure Brentford don't get an easy ride. Al has already been informed.

Steve Turner on Saturday, Feb. 21st, 2009 at 2:51 AM
 
 
 
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