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No Moves Received (NMRs)
Posted by Allan Sellers on Wednesday, Jan. 28th, 2009 at 12:29 AM

Currently, I have some code in place to create "individual" NMR lineups.  This code does not try to account for the rules governing SBY or APP appearances.

A team will be "all or nothing" when it comes to NMR as the orders page shouldn't allow "just one" match lineup to be saved (if it is, tell me).

So there's an up front need 'just before' a session runs to create NMR orders. 

I'd really like some ideas on a design for this. 

No NMR process will please everyone...however I want one in place so a game is played (and not a 4-nil walkover or something like that).

At the same time, 18 years of experience tells me maybe we need a "punitive" NMR design and a "gentle" NMR design here.

Punitive could be NMRing with no warning or hitting the 2nd (or more) session where a manager has NMRd.

Gentle could be one where a manager tells me 'something has come up' (family emergency/overloaded at work/etc) and they shouldn't be punished (anymore than the will be with NMR) OR perhaps its their 1st NMR of the season.  Again maybe this is a "one-time per season" thing.

Anyway, perhaps the distinction here is that in the gentle NMR we try to use the Youth Coach and CP...in a punitive one, NO CP is used (and thus all of it but 15 are lost).

Can I get some thoughts on that along with "design ideas" on how to write a good NMR program to account for what we need to?

If folks can help with ideas I may be able to get something in place this weekend. 

One 'detail' here MIGHT be to allow SBY players to play (or be Youth Coached) in more than 1 match in an NMR session, BUT they wouldn't get credit for more than 1 appearance.  Same for APP (allow more than 2 appearances, but only credit them with 2 when it comes to getting them to the next level).

Thanks,
Al

Readers Comments

I dont know any other way to put this, so I'll just say it

I Hate NMR teams winning Any Game!

I do however realise that there needs to be some kind of code in place to put out a team of sorts.

 If a Manager informs the Commissioner that there may be a problem with him getting orders in then it is reasonable for a decent lineup to be entered. But if a Manager just misses the deadline without warning (whatever reason) then the lineup should be downgraded.

I dont think that any Coaching should be applied to NMR teams. 

I dont think that APP's or SB's should gain experience from NMR lineups either.

I dont think that Backroom boy bonuses should be applied to NMR's either.

No Home Bonus or Play for a draw Bonuses should be applied to NMR lineups

As for the line-up, I think that the best available players with Fitness of at least 0 should be picked adopting a 4-4-2 formation

Any CP carried over in excess of the maximum should be forfeited

If all that sounds too Draconian ...Tough ..Dont NMR!

On the other hand would it be possible to have a default orders/lineup saved somewhere in the database for each team ?

 

Just a thoiught

Dave Dowson on Wednesday, Jan. 28th, 2009 at 12:58 AM
 

"On the other hand would it be possible to have a default orders/lineup saved somewhere in the database for each team ?"

Wouldn't this be effectively an NMR team anyway because all the NMR code does is put out a default team? It's the same thing as far as I'm concerned.

As regards the type of NMR team the system will play? Perhaps if losing to an NMR team is a big enough issue, we could make it be the worst 11 the squad has available? Or multiply the area totals by 70% or whatever suitable %age.

I don't actually mind NMR teams winning. I always view it that the main manager is busy and that the assistant manager (the software) takes over the squad for that session. I know one of my colleagues at the-manager used to get very hot under the collar because he couldn't understand how his team got beat when 'there was nobody playing them'.

We had to gently point out that NMR stands for No Moves Received, not 'No Team Received'.

I guess if folks are worried about the SBYs and APPs being developed during an NMR session we could make it the worst GK and a Bottom 10 Outfield players aged 1 to 5, so no SBYs or APPs.

 

My vote would be for a competent but not T11 side with no penalties to any of the totals and if SBs or APPs are in the side, I don't mind. It's not that I would mind playing a T11side, it's just if that gets played for a full session it'll have more of a lasting effect on the side as they all lose 1 fitness.

Maybe the  4 4 2 formation with the Top DF, MF and FW missing and the second string keeper in goal? That way you're not playing the T11.

Be mindful of the fact that the NMR side is going to have none of their team coached and won't be able to add points to any of their area totals like they normally would. No playing for a draw or other tactics either. I'm sure there must be other drawbacks too.

I don't like NMRs happening to a team all season because it can result in a good side deteriorating quite quickly due to lack of coaching and squad management, trades, auctions and so on.

But I certainly don't want to have a big song and dance because someone missed a move in a PBEM game.

I prefer a benign dictatorship :-)

 

I

David King on Wednesday, Jan. 28th, 2009 at 1:44 AM
 

Hi guys,

Just to clarify, there are 3 reasons why default orders won't work:

1) We have injuries and suspensions...default orders won't account for them (see my other post on injuries/suspensions)

2) Default orders, I think, are a crutch that shouldn't be used.  Part of the fun is coming up with a strategy versus opponents.

3) Since we'll have 2, 3, or 4 game sessions (it will vary) and due to things like SBY and APP max appareances, it just won't work.

So let's move on from default orders.  :-)

I understand the points of Dancin...well...Draconian Dave, but am of the opinion of a balance somewhere on this.  Thanks David for the ideas.

I'll consider both the ideas I see so far.  But I need more to try to put something together. Keep the ideas coming...

Thanks,
Al

Allan Sellers on Wednesday, Jan. 28th, 2009 at 1:59 AM
 

I play in PUMA and TOTL run by Pete Burrows.

His solution which works well is that if a manager NMR's the team selected consists of the best eleven player available to play given injuries/suspensions. They play in set positions, hence no OOP and apart from Home advantage gain no other benefits and play at Hardness 1. This generally means that they will loose games about 10-15% more of the time but will not be a push over and would also generally mean that SBY's and APP's do not feature in the side so do not get the benefit of playing games.

The manager also looses his vp's and coaches for the session and cannot bid in the auction/transfer markets. This is a significant penalty as most experienced managers will know.

It also means that the GM does not have too much to do time wise in dealing with NMR's

Trevor Taylor on Thursday, Jan. 29th, 2009 at 11:08 AM
 

 Here are my thoughts on the subject:

  • CPs - allowed for fitness with the "gentle" NMR. None allowed for "punitive" NMR
  • Team formation - either 4-3-3, 3-4-3 or 4-4-2 - randomly selected
  • No SW used
  • No OOP
  • Backroom Boys - Physio allowed for "gentle" NMR. None allowed for "punitive" NMR
  • HFA - allowed for "gentle" NMR. None allwed for "punitive" NMR
  • Player selection - Best GK selected, no SW, random 2/3/4 DF/MF/FW selected based on chosen tactic.

CPs
For the "gentle" NMR, CPs should be allowed for fitness on the lowest 'fit' players. For this to work, just enter the players into an array, ordered by their fitness level (ie, -4, -3, 0, 1, 2). Then loop through the array, assigning CP to fitness, starting at the top (least fit player) and continuing on until there are no further CPs left.

However, for the "punitive" NMR, this is easy - no CPs allowed!

Formation
Simple random number here. 
1 = 4-3-3
2 = 3-4-3
3 = 4-4-2

SW
Sweepers appear to be rather special in this game as they allow for extra protection in keeping shots away from goal.  In an effort to have a certain measure of punitive damages for either type of NMR, and to allow for the tactic/player selection process to be easier, I recommend that no SW be allowed for either NMR type.

OOP
Keep it simple, keep to the theory of no real bonuses to the NMR team. Do not allow OOP.

Backroom Boys
I am assuming that there can/will be some sort of "activation" for the Backroom Boys as the rules say that they "can be used" not that they are always used if the exist. WIth that in mind, I advocate for inactivating all but the Physio for the "gentle" NMR and inactivating all BBs for the "punitive" NMR.

HFA
For the "gentle" NMR, I recommend that we allow for 6 points to be used, 2 in each of the 3 outfield areas.
For the "punitive" NMR, no HFA should be used.

Player Selection
For both NMR types, select the highest SL GK that is fit to play.
For the "gentle" NMR, select the highest X players at each of the 3 outfield positions where Fitness >= -1 (so as to not heavily penalize the manager by having players end up at -3 fitness at the end of the session). 
For the "punitive" NMR, randomly select X players at each of the 3 outfield positions that are fit to play. Do not account for fitness levels other than that the player is physically able to play (fit >= -2).

For both NMR types, do not account for the SBY/APP limits and do not count any matches played by SBY/APPs to their "PU"

Rob Peterson on Thursday, Jan. 29th, 2009 at 6:31 PM
 
 
 
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